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waymire
feeding help!!!!
Oct 15 2011, 7:33 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2011, 7:33 PM EDT
I hope people are reading posts here again, cause I really need some advice.

We have had our horses out 24/7 for a few months now, and all has been going splendidly. We have a modified pp: our "traditional" barn opened up into several very large stalls with open doors (except for two that I have reserved for feeding my two problem eaters a supplement meal), opening into a larger paddock, which opens into connections on both sides into other areas. Kind of like a chain, more than a track as the system does not actually make a full loop. We have been feeding hay only, scattered by handfuls all over the place, supplemented by grass ( they have eaten most of it down and maintain just enough for ground cover most of the time). All was happy, all the horses were in good weight, and then the grass stopped growing. My three easy keepers became hay vaccums that devour everything in site (and are becoming a bit chunky), I have one in the middle who holds his own, and two that are getting thinner and thinner. I started locking up the two skinny's with a supplemental meal of alfalfa pellets, and rice bran (one of them already had been getting a small snack containing his supplements but that only took about five minutes to eat), so I have to toss a couple of flakes, lock up the two, feed them, put out the rest of the hay, finish my chores, wait an hour or so, then return to let them out. By that time the other guys have eaten at least half the hay. We are up to three times what we were feeding and they still wolf it all within six hours or so. So I am already in trouble. Then I went to buy hay this week, from my only supplier, get it home, open the first bale today and it is the worst junk I have ever seen. (ran out of space see reply) Do you find this valuable?    
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waymire
1. RE: feeding help!!!!
Oct 15 2011, 8:02 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2011, 8:02 PM EDT
The drought in our area has been really bad, hay is already hard to find here because of the close proximity to salt water our ground is too alkaline, folks from tx are buying anything they can get and shipping it there, I have one source for hay and its $7 for a 40lb bale. It was nasty, about 20% foxtails, and wet in the middle. Needless to say my local feed store where I buy it is getting a phone call monday. But now I'm going through 120lbs of hay a day, which apparently isn't enough, and I have nowhere to get it, cause I'm not feeding them this junk any further than this weekend (and that is only because I have no choice). When my guys were stalled we never fed more than 75-100 lbs, even when feeding huge amounts to rescues, and all my horses were in correct weight. I'm guessing it's because of the low quality hay (it's been going downhill for a while now, but this is the first time is was this bad) combined with the piggies taking more than their share, and the skinnys not having enough time to eat. I am so frustrated! This is why I always fed a complete feed with hay as a condiment, but my LFS swore to me he had a good supplier and could be reliable. Does anyone have suggestions about alternative feeding solutions? I really do not want to lock them up again, I have redesigned my entire property, plus the health benefits have been amazing and I do not want to undo all the progress I have made. Alfalfa pellets/cubes are $15 a bag here right now. Beet pulp is $18 for 40lbs. I do have access to an "all stock" feed I used to feed as their main diet..... its mostly hay with a small amount of grain, low nsc, high fiber, and 12% protein. I can supplement some of the hay with it, but has anyone found a good way to feed grain in PP? Without piggies hogging it all and skinnys starving? Do you find this valuable?    

waymire
2. RE: feeding help!!!!
Oct 16 2011, 12:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 16 2011, 12:58 AM EDT
OK after several hours of banging my head against the wall......

I guess I really have two basic problems:

The mixed herd is not going to work, I am going to have to split them. This will be interesting because skinny mare is very bonded to piggy pony mare (aka houdini) and piggy pony mare has a history of breaking out of her paddock to be with skinny mare. Additionally skinny mare and skinny gelding do not get along, he bullies her. However, skinny mare and skinny gelding will be very good eating buddies, since they both take an eternity to eat and have similar dietary needs. Additionally, this will effectively cut my "chain" in two, reducing the space and resources either herd has. The gravel area, good grazing area, and large running space are all separate entities, and I will have to choose who gets what based on where I can split my stalls. Maybe I could rotate them.... that may actually be a good idea since it will create interest, they have been pretty bored lately.

I am going to have to change what I feed, and hay may not be an option. After crunching numbers my best bet financially is the all stock, followed by cubes. Cubes are better for the horses, but much more expensive, I'm talking about doubling my already extremely high feed bills. I hate to even bring cost into it, but the cost of feed here has almost doubled this year, our income has dropped, and we are feeling the strain. I will be feeding higher quality feed though, so we should go back to our old amounts, which are based on actual nutritional need vs. them stuffing themselves silly on the nutritional equivalent of cardboard every day. I'm going to have to find a reasonable way to feed pellets or cubes (or both) in the PP. Do you find this valuable?    
Equemily
Equemily
3. RE: feeding help!!!!
Nov 29 2011, 9:41 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 29 2011, 9:41 AM EST
Waymire, I feel for you having trouble finding good hay - it must be so frustrating! Here on the east coast we've been fairly lucky, but I'm afraid all of us are going to be struggling this winter, as we've had a very wet season and a lot of people never got a second cutting off their fields.

First thoughts... have you tried stretching hay consumption by using small mesh hay nets? I have found that my herd of 6 eats about a bale and a half per day, with no waste because I'm feeding out of SMHN's. Granted, 4 of them get about 3 hours of grass every day, but even on days that they don't get the grass, hay consumption never goes over 2 bales in a 24 hr period.

I too have two elderly hard keepers who simply wouldn't be able to handle the other 6 who are on the track, so they get "special privileges" and get to roam the barnyard where they can eat the choice grass. They get three small meals a day of senior feed, rice bran, flax and soaked alfalfa pellets, and while their hay isn't super, it's adequate.

Also, for feeding cubes - try a toy that dispenses cubes intermittently - one of the best ways to slow consumption is to make the horse work for it. That may not be ideal for your hard keepers, but for the others who inhale the hay you give them, it may help.

I would wonder if 3 or 4 cube dispensers given to the pudgies at the same time as the skinnies are eating would cut down on the hay vacuuming, and then everyone could eat from SMHN's...

Just some thoughts - gotta love 'em for keeping us on our best game!

Emily
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waymire
4. RE: feeding help!!!!
Nov 30 2011, 3:29 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 30 2011, 3:29 AM EST
Thanks for your reply!

Well, we tried several things over the last month and a half. First I split the track, and started rationing hay according to actual need, and it helped a bit but we were still going through way too much, body condition was still not great, movement was severely diminished (I saw an immediate decline in hoof and joint quality, as well as my younger colt exhibiting frustration due to lack of exercise), and it became an "obstacle course" that I had to weave through for feeding and watering. We had another period of very scarce hay as well, and it became obvious to me that the hay only diet was the big problem. While it may be "more natural" and may work fine for others who have access to good quality hay, what we can get is simply not good enough to ensure proper nutrition. I tried adding a supplement of low protein, high fiber complete feed to each section, but found I still had problems with individual consumption and condition, they spent even more time standing in one place, and it added even more "back and forth through too many gates". So I opened everything back up, shut all the doors on my stalls except for one on each, and went back to feeding in stalls. They all get an appropriate amount of good quality grain (Super glo 6, from my local mill, similar to safechoce, really good vit/min, probiotics, 14% protein, 7% fat, 15% fiber), are confined to their stalls until everyone finishes (about 2 hours a day, since the feed is concentrated they do not have to eat as much), and then turn out on track for the rest of the day with scattered hay. I saw immediate improvement in all areas. They are currently getting two small squares a day, which is enough to provide sufficient fiber and chew time, and I can adjust each horses' diet individually to meet their needs should I run into another shortage of hay. Do you find this valuable?    

waymire
5. RE: feeding help!!!!
Nov 30 2011, 4:20 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 30 2011, 4:20 AM EST
Currently our grain intake varies from a cup (super fatty shetland) to 9lbs (super hard keeper TWH), there is no way to accommodate that kind of variance of nutritional need on track. I fully agree to the physical benefits of the track, and it is a massive improvement in the management of small acreage, but I think in reality the concept in its' entirety only works if you have horses that are similar to each other. Trying to mix "old geezers" with "equine vacuum cleaners" just doesn't work. In nature, the older horse, and the hard keeper would simply weaken and die..... thus ensuring a strong herd. It has become obvious to me that while "more natural" is a great concept, and changes can be made for any horse that will improve their way of life beyond the traditional stable experience, the nature of the domesticated horse and our willingness to extend their lives beyond what nature would allow requires us to care for them in ways that are outside of the "natural horse" constraints. By looking at the PP as simply an "improved pasture" and keeping the parts of traditional horsekeeping that work, we can provide a more healthy environment for each individual horse.

And to answer your question, yes we did try slow feeders. The biggest problem was that they just stood there all day and ate. Movement slowed to next to nothing, not only did it take them much longer to get enough hay to meet their needs, they had little motivation to wander about, everyone just picked a bag and ate, then stood around. Even with multiple bags they just moved to the next bag and stood around some more. Scattering makes for much, much more movement. I think the greatest improvement in the use of slow feeders is for the horse who is already confined, in this instance they really do help increase chew time and decrease intake. Every positive aspect of the track is directly related to movement, slow feeders decrease it. Do you find this valuable?