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Discussion: Research Data on paddock configuration
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ChristinaSchumacher |
Research Data by Brumby Research Unit - paddock configuration/movement
Feb 3 2010, 8:22 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 4 2010, 8:24 PM EST
Hi all.Here is some of the data that Brian has accumulated when comparing feral and domesticated horses. When he studied the domesticated horses in order to compare their movement to a feral horse he accumulated some interesting data. The main conclusion is, and I don't think we'll be surprised, but feral horses move a great deal more than the avg. horse in the avg. sized paddocks. Paddock configuration did have some impact but not much. Surprisingly the race track style track did not cause more movement than an open pasture configuration. There was diminishing movement with other track configurations such as a spiral and a zig zag fence pattern. The study was done using 5 different horses, each placed in with one lower status gelding for company and was for 6 days at a time. Here is some of the basic figures in km/day in this format: Type of design / Distance avg. km/day / Miles conversion Open with Shade tree at far end / 4.1 / 2.548 Race Track style / 3.9 / 2.423 Maze(Zig zag type) / 3.8 /Hardly no movement in the night hours Spiral to center / 3.1 / Hardly no movement in the night hours Open and no shade tree / 3.9/ 2.423 Feral horse on at least 9000 acres traveled an avg of 17.9km per day with a range daily from 12.5-25.9 km, in miles this is an avg of 11.2 m As stated at the top of the page: The consequences of limiting domestic horse movements by confinement may have a negative impact on general health, fitness and foot health. I know this is kind of a "Duh." statement but its great that everyone here is striving to find ways to improve and diminish this negative impact. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?
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studying track movement
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Walowa |
1. RE: Research Data on paddock configuration
Feb 3 2010, 9:13 PM EST
Let me say first off, that I am not trying to be argumentive here, just some food for thought. This is a little like comparing apples and oranges. Feral horses have more incentive to move to find food and water and they have prey animals adding to the need to move. If we really want our horses to move more, maybe we should try hiding their hay and moving the water hole every once in awhile. I know, I am just being silly, but our horses know that food and water will always be there and shelter is stationary. As Spotted T pointed out in another thread, most of our horses are ridden at least some of the time which is not referenced as part of their daily movement. We call them domestic horses for a reason, and part of domestication bred out the feral heritage. Does anyone have mustangs that have come off the range from the BLM? How much does their movement change when they have the security of human care? Terrie
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tangledmanes |
2. RE: Research Data on paddock configuration
Feb 3 2010, 11:26 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 3 2010, 11:31 PM EST
Interesting start! Thanks for posting that. I have a couple of questions for clarification:Do you know how the grass quality and quantity in those pastures and paddock tracks compared to the grass on the feral range? Were there enrichment stations along the paddocks? Was the feeding method the same on the open pastures and the paddock tracks? Were slow feeders utilized? Where is the water in the pastures and tracks? How far from available grass or hay? I really like how they standardized the turnout by using the similar herd hierarchy structures in different turnout designs. Like you said, of course the feral horse moved more, but I'm more interested in the enrichment opportunities in the pastures and paddock tracks. I also consider grass along the track (if it was there) to be detrimental to movement. As the public portions of the feral study pointed out, those horses *have to* travel great distances from the water hole before they have any opportunity for nutrition. JoAnn Do you find this valuable? |
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tangledmanes |
3. RE: Research Data on paddock configuration
Feb 3 2010, 11:48 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 3 2010, 11:55 PM EST
"If we really want our horses to move more, maybe we should try hiding their hay and moving the water hole every once in awhile. I know, I am just being silly, but our horses know that food and water will always be there and shelter is stationary. As Spotted T pointed out in another thread, most of our horses are ridden at least some of the time which is not referenced as part of their daily movement. Terrie"Very good points, Terrie. You and Spotted T have me wondering *why* ridden/driven miles aren't counted toward the daily movement total for domestic horses. I think they should be. That is why I've said before that hard-working horses with strenuous jobs may not be good candidates for active Paddock Paradise tracks because they could use the downtime -- to rest and feed when they're not working, rather than tackling extra challenges and miles we try so hard to incorporate into our track designs. I also realize that very very few domestic horses nowadays fall into that category. And I don't think any horse benefits from being kept in a stall. Don't be silly about being silly ;-) --- Hiding the hay works! I know that some of us do frequently change the location of our SMHNs, and I have visually compared how much more my horses move with that slow feeding method than with the all-day slow feeder which remains stationary. Others combine the two methods, or scatter supplemental hay cubes. JoAnn Do you find this valuable? |
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tangledmanes |
4. RE: Research Data on paddock configuration
Feb 4 2010, 12:00 AM EST
"Does anyone have mustangs that have come off the range from the BLM? How much does their movement change when they have the security of human care? Terrie"Interesting question about feral horses brought in off the range -- I believe that most are kept in close quarters for gentling, so wouldn't have the opportunity to continue their patterns of movement. But it would be interesting to get data from the mustang reserves where the captured mustangs are again released into fenced pastures. Also, I'm reminded of the mustang training competitions. I don't follow those closely, but haven't heard much about lameness problems from any lack of conditioning. They seem to be fit enough to start right in with saddle training. Which ties in with one of the selling points of Paddock Paradise -- no need for warmup or a general conditioning exercise program when they already spend their day moving. Just my thoughts. JoAnn Do you find this valuable? |
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ChristinaSchumacher |
5. RE: Research Data on paddock configuration
Feb 4 2010, 10:31 AM EST
HI. Let me first clarify that I was not stating an agreement or disagreement with the data. I was only stating what the data showed. All Brian was testing was did the fence configuration itself cause differing amounts of movement. And how does typical horse keeping of domestic horses compare to the movement of feral horses. I agree with all your points & questions, this precisely why we felt the need for more study to be done. The data shows that just installing a track does not mean more movement. I believe that placement of resources is the key as well as possibly the shape & proportions of the track. Brian believes this could be a factor as well which is why he was fine with us getting his equipment to further the research.I will answer the detail questions more later. I knew it would open a can of worms last night and I wanted to point out some of the things that you've brought up but I was too tired and I felt the data needed to be displayed as it stands by itself. I have to run right now but will post more later. Horses and hay spreading is calling my name. ;) Do you find this valuable? |
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ChristinaSchumacher |
6. RE: Research Data on paddock configuration
Feb 4 2010, 12:59 PM EST
Here are a few more details from the study: The only two "resources" that would encourage movement was water at one end and shelter at the opposite end. In all of the configurations, except the one where the tree was fenced off to take it out of the equation. There was ample grass over the entire pasture so that this would remain a constant no matter what section of the field they were in or what configuration it was in. Again this test was only to see if fencing configuration alone induced more movement. A few details that Brian observed was that the horses did not like moving in the maze or spiral configuration after dark. It was probably to complex a system that they did not want to risk getting shocked by fence. They were pretty stationary at night, not so with the open and track design. The shade tree was their favorite place to rest and hang out. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChristinaSchumacher |
7. RE: Research Data on paddock configuration
Feb 4 2010, 1:17 PM EST
As just a little side note of interest, horses are not native to Australia and were an introduced species when they were needed for exploration, travel and work. Then they were turned loose, no one considering the environmental impact this would have. Their numbers have grown to in excess of a million I believe and they have no natural predators whatsoever. The same situation exist with camels there. They have an environmental disaster on their hands.
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tangledmanes |
8. RE: Research Data on paddock configuration
Feb 4 2010, 1:42 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 4 2010, 1:43 PM EST
"All Brian was testing was did the fence configuration itself cause differing amounts of movement. And how does typical horse keeping of domestic horses compare to the movement of feral horses. I agree with all your points & questions, this precisely why we felt the need for more study to be done. The data shows that just installing a track does not mean more movement. I believe that placement of resources is the key as well as possibly the shape & proportions of the track. Brian believes this could be a factor as well which is why he was fine with us getting his equipment to further the research.I think it's a great start to know that fencing alone does not create a Paddock Paradise. Brian is doing a commendable job of studying one thing at a time. :-) I don't think I could restrain myself from throwing in more enrichment stations and thereby throwing off the study! ha Well, thinking back to my first PP effort, that really was just the fencing. It was in an "L" shape (in NY), about 25 feet wide -- and also DIDN'T WORK. :-) My horses would wander down either lane randomly and not all on the same side of the fence. I had some loose hay at the end, but had scattered loose hay along the rest of it, too. And there was grass. My, how long ago and far away that seems now. Movement started to increase after changing the track shape to a loop around three acres, but it was still too wide and didn't have slow feeders. Things really improved after introducing slow feeders, along with lengthening and narrowing the perimeter track. Didn't mean to sound argumentative, Christina -- I know you're presenting the data as it stands. I just wanted to know how it was set up. And I think it's very important to make it clear in the future that this study does not address a full-on Paddock Paradise setup -- just the fencing aspect. With that in mind, do you know how wide the fenced tracks were? Do you find this valuable? |
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ChristinaSchumacher |
9. RE: Research Data on paddock configuration
Feb 4 2010, 8:19 PM EST
The track was 26 feet wide with a slight widening at the rounded inside corners
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ChristinaSchumacher |
10. Paddock/Pasture size Movement data
Feb 4 2010, 10:23 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 5 2010, 8:13 AM EST
Here are some figures that Brian found when researching the amount of movement in varying size paddocks/pastures:Paddock 20x20 ft+/- Avg 0.684 miles per day Pasture 1 acre Avg 2.92 miles per day Pasture 9.8 ac+/- Avg 3.79 miles per day Pasture 39 +/- ac Avg 4.47 miles per day Feral area 9800 ac Avg 11.12 miles per day One up side of this data shows us that size alone does not radically increase much greater movement When acreage quadrupled the amount of movement did not. As a note, in his paper he does include the excercise factor of various breeds and disciplines into the factor, but the main conclusion is that horses kept in stalled, even those excercised/trained daily in normal training routines such as Thoroughbreds or dressage, or reining horses that get a training session of 30-40 minutes and the like still do not on average get the movement that the avg horse gets with no work or riding that is in a 1 acre pasture. I think that this shows that the more we can ride our horses, the better it is for them. This data can give us some figures to work towards when we watch their movement and ride them. If for ex. Spotted Apps horses are averaging 6 miles a day, thats really good, and then if she adds in riding time, even better. Do you find this valuable? |
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tangledmanes |
11. RE: Research Data on paddock configuration
Feb 4 2010, 11:14 PM EST
"The track was 26 feet wide with a slight widening at the rounded inside corners"Oh, that's unfortunate. I could have told him that was too wide... Perhaps the question of whether track fence alone contributes to movement isn't settled after all. But it hasn't always been easy to find out what has and has not been working in actual Paddock Paradise setups. Jaime Jackson had written about having a PP symposium and publishing workbooks based on feedback he received about track design from those of us trying it. So I wrote to him in early spring of 2008 and told him that my track was too wide and that I was planning on narrowing it to 15 feet that year. He thanked me for my comments and promised to keep me updated about PP events. But I never heard anything further and was so discouraged about the lack of information flow that six months later, I created this wiki to discuss PP with other users directly. There is a wealth of information and experience here now, thanks to contributions from wiki members around the world, and I hope some of that might be useful in designing the next study. JoAnn 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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tangledmanes |
12. RE: Paddock/Pasture size Movement data
Feb 4 2010, 11:35 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 4 2010, 11:59 PM EST
"Paddock 20x20 ft+/- Avg 0.684 miles per dayVery interesting! I notice that the feral horses actually average fewer miles per day than I'd heard they do. And it helps define a mileage goal to shoot for with our turnout tracks -- if we can achieve average daily movement of just 4-1/2 miles during turnout on whatever size property we have to work with, it becomes the equivalent of a 40-acre field! Did you see the study published in "Equus" from Virginia Intermont College? It had a similar conclusion about horses in training compared to turnout. Pawsplus blogged about it on this page: http://paddockparadise.wetpaint.com/page/Hoofmaiden+and+Blue+Heron+Farm+Blog Basically, it concluded that 24/7 turnout keeps horses more fit than does regular riding of stall-kept horses. Great stuff! Thanks for posting, and I'm looking forward to watching Brian's "Desert Brumby" DVD. :-) JoAnn Do you find this valuable? |
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ChristinaSchumacher |
13. RE: Paddock/Pasture size Movement data
Feb 5 2010, 8:07 AM EST
The reason is, they travel maybe 15-30 miles out from water hole and then camp out in the grazing region and move much less and then travel the long trip back to water. So it averages out.
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SpottedTApps |
14. RE: Paddock/Pasture size Movement data
Feb 5 2010, 10:42 AM EST
"Paddock 20x20 ft+/- Avg 0.684 miles per dayThis is great information to have. We should come up with some sort of spreadsheet to display our findings like this so we can see them all in one place. Do you find this valuable? |
EMequus |
15. RE: Paddock/Pasture size Movement data
Feb 6 2010, 7:15 PM EST
Paddock 20x20 ft+/- Avg 0.684 miles per dayPasture 1 acre Avg 2.92 miles per day Pasture 9.8 ac+/- Avg 3.79 miles per day Pasture 39 +/- ac Avg 4.47 miles per day Feral area 9800 ac Avg 11.12 miles per day Excuse me for asking, but what is 'feral area'?? Do you find this valuable? |
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tangledmanes |
16. RE: Paddock/Pasture size Movement data
Feb 6 2010, 10:15 PM EST
Feral area is the wild horse territory -- thousands of acres over which the brumbies in Brian's study roamed.JoAnn Do you find this valuable? |
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tangledmanes |
17. RE: Paddock/Pasture size Movement data
Feb 6 2010, 10:41 PM EST
"This is great information to have. We should come up with some sort of spreadsheet to display our findings like this so we can see them all in one place."I think that's a good idea. Unfortunately, I don't think the wiki has actual spreadsheet capability. However, we can assemble comparison charts pretty easily. Take a look at the one I added here http://paddockparadise.wetpaint.com/page/Studying+Track+Movement and tell me if that is something like you were thinking. Do you find this valuable? |
Olympus09 |
18. RE: Paddock/Pasture size Movement data
Feb 8 2010, 8:32 AM EST
This is a really interesting thread - thank you Christina for posting the data.
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