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Discussion: Need some track ideas and help!
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SpottedTApps |
Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 20 2009, 10:43 AM EDT
OK, this isn't working out so well in the case of having multiple horses. The younger, less dominant horses are getting beat the snot out of. I had hoped that this would resolve itself with time, but it hasn't. My poor 3 yr old has about 40 bite or kick marks on her. Many of the others do as well. So, I need to devise a way for multiple tracks on this property, with easy access to each area and good flow. You can see how the property is laid out on the Florida page. I can only use the 2 pasture areas, one of which is tracked now, and the one above/behind that which is open now. Ideas please! Do you find this valuable?
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Walowa |
1. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 20 2009, 11:31 AM EDT
I am sorry to hear that you are having problems. I am about to open a track here. Five of the horses have been together all winter, but two have been in a separate section, but the track will put them all together. I have been worrying about how they will all get along. I can move the two into the round pen field, but even there they would have to get along with the two fillys that have been pastured there. Always something to worry about! Is your herd a mix of sexes? Is there one that seems to be the bully? Maybe removing him/her from the group would be all you need to do. It lookes like you have that small area dry lot, bottom left on the drawing. Would it be possible to cut across the middle of the field with two tracks with at least 12 feet between them. It would look like a figure 8 with a space between the middle of the 8. I know, just what you wanted, more fence to build!!! Good luck Terrie
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tangledmanes |
2. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 21 2009, 12:19 AM EDT
I wish I was home with access to my book, SpottedT. I don't remember what Jaime Jackson says about unresolved hierarchy disputes. Where are they getting beat up? Feeding areas or along the track? In corners? I know you left plenty of room at the front where they wait for you. Seems like they've had enough time to work it out by now, how frustrating! Sorry I can't think of much right now. I like Terrie's idea of separating the troublemaker if possible. ~JoAnn Do you find this valuable? |
Wildridge |
3. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 21 2009, 9:42 AM EDT
After reading JoAnn's response, I got my PP book out (hope you have a copy). Page 97-98, Relative Dominance is discussed. Basically this is about pecking order. Jamie Jackson talks about relationships are based on relative dominance & cooperation (not everyone gets along with everyone!). Jamie talks about letting the horses work out these issue not on track. He says to let the horses work out the pecking order in an open area. There will be a alpha mare who leads the band and a alpha male who will drive the herd. Hope this helps.I like Terri's idea of separating the troulemaker, too. You may just have to figure the group into 2 herds & rotate who which herd is on the track & which one is in the dry lot area. Ann Do you find this valuable? |
pawsplus |
4. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 21 2009, 10:08 AM EDT
How many horses and how many acres?Elizabeth 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Walowa |
5. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 21 2009, 3:13 PM EDT
Just went back to the PP bible, Jamie Jackson's book. Reread page 97 and 98 and then looked at a few more sections. One thing we don't talk much about is off track turn out. JJ recommends turning the horses loose off track for a brief busy play time a couple times a day. This is not a time to graze, but for the horses to be active and play with each other. I guess I was under the impression that spending all the time on the track would give them plenty of time to interact. Is anyone actually doing the off track turn out? Terrie
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Wildridge |
6. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 21 2009, 6:18 PM EDT
Waolwa, I read the same passages & took that the turn out time was for the horses to work out dominance issues or to figure out the pecking order. I'm going to have to go back and read again. Some times I miss very obvious things! (hahaha) Ann
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Walowa |
7. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 21 2009, 7:22 PM EDT
Well, I feel like I am at a crossroad here. Time to go back and reread the whole section with the PP templates. The one about off track turnout starts on the bottom of page 92. I am thinking I will introduce the two groups in the inner field, inside the track and see how they get on. May do that for a few days before actually turning them out on the track. JJ warns that they will fight and carry on and we should let them get it out of their system and establish a pecking order. That may be hard to do. Sure don't want anybody hurt. Terrie
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Wildridge |
8. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 21 2009, 8:31 PM EDT
Just an idea...one could even put just one horse from each herd together in the inner track, see how they do, & then add another horse after the first two had become friendly. Kind of bring up the new group slowly, without so many together with strong bonds until things seem settled. One might even switch up the small groups over the course of a month or so before putting all the horses together.
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Walowa |
9. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 21 2009, 9:56 PM EDT
I like the way you are thinking. There are several ways to accomplish this transition. I just don't want to be a nervous or physical wreck before we are done. I hope to have everybody on track at some point, so I need to find a good way to accomplish this transition. I have changed the grouping a few times, but the five that spent the winter together are getting along pretty good. I will keep you updated on how we progress. Meanwhile, I am back rereading the PP book for any nuggets that I have overlooked or forgotten. Spotted T Apps, have you come up with anything that is working better for your situation? I didn't intend to run off with your thread, but your situation really hit home for me. Thanks for getting me thinking before jumping in. Terrie
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SpottedTApps |
10. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 24 2009, 3:10 PM EDT
Sorry for the late reply you guys, have been unable to get on for a couple days. There is already an established pecking order. I have 2 trouble makers, both of which are boarder horses. Both pretty aggressive. One gelding is top of the whole herd, doesn't matter who is out with him, even my lead mare. He is mean aggressive, but short lived. It is more often a "get out of my way" thing with him. The mare isn't even top mare, she is #3 in the herd, and everyone under her must fear her wrath. She is vicious and a bloodsucker. No lie. She attacks without provocation and it is not short lived. I have seen her go full force 3/4 of the way around the track chasing one biting it in the butt. Vicious. She will get one cornered and just keep at it non stop. No, I have not had my horses turned into the center of the track for establishing herd issues. For one, the track is so wide, they do a fair amount of scuffling as it is. For 2, I don't have the time. Period. There is a reason they are on a track, because I can't get them exercised daily. I know where the problem lies, and I know the solution is seperation. Which is why I want to come up with a way to divide the track into 2 tracks, but still make it all flow and work right. Do you find this valuable? |
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SpottedTApps |
11. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
Apr 24 2009, 3:41 PM EDT
oh yeah, and there's anywhere from 5-8 horses at a time on the track. Always the same horses, but some come and go for shows and/or training etc.
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CyndiB |
13. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
May 13 2009, 12:51 PM EDT
I'm having the same problem on my track. I have one very aggressive gelding who takes control of everyone. On pasture last summer I had him out with one mare. She had to be removed before graining them or he would chase her over the fence when he heard the grain being prepared. During the winter he was in a paddock with a passive gelding which learned to deal with him. I have been madly building my track since Easter and put the 4 mares out on a portion of it last weekend. I then introduced the passive gelding in the pasture to the mares. He was fine there but once they were put onto the track he chased them around a bit but they soon established a pecking order. Yesterday, I put Mr. Dominance out in the pasture with the others and everyone got along great, so out on the track they went. Disaster! He tore after everyone trying to herd them up. (it does not help that the mares have all come into heat.) He cornered the passive gelding behind the trough style hay feeder and pushed it over onto the passive ones back (luckily he's okay). We quickly got Mr. Dominance out of there and am beginning to think he may have to have a track of his own or I may have to do a boy track and a girl track. Augh! More $$$ but safer. My husband thought Mr. Dominance should maybe go out on the track first (so it his his domain) then the passive gelding and then the mares but I'm really nervous about trying them all together again, I'm afraid someone may get really hurt! I'm trying to post my track under South Eastern Ontario. Have you had any luck sorting your heard out?
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SpottedTApps |
14. RE: Need some track ideas and help!
May 13 2009, 1:05 PM EDT
The worst of the culprits, the boarder mare, left a week ago for California, so that took a load off. The other is another boarder horse, he is just dominant aggressive, not chase around the track aggressive. I'm still getting plenty of battle wounds, but not nearly the chaos I was getting before. If I had the space, I'd make this gelding his own track. I just don't have the space at the moment. Do you find this valuable? |
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tangledmanes |
15. Saved as a page
May 25 2009, 11:33 PM EDT
This thread was saved as a page.
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SpottedTApps |
16. RE: Saved as a page
May 26 2009, 8:47 AM EDT
Since you bumped this up, I'll let you know that I am going to be dividing my track to seperate a couple of horses out. It's a lot of work and more money, but all but one horse are coming up daily with multiple kick & bite marks. Something has to be done.
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Takelababy |
17. paddock
Mar 13 2010, 8:49 PM EST
I have four rectangular paddocks side by side, divided by wire. Altho I can't afford to build a track I plan on changing the openings in the wire. Presently the horses can move from #1 across the top of 2, 3 and four. I will close the wire between 2 and 3 and open it at the far end. This will triple the distance to either water or number 4 paddock. #4 has a small creek and pond in it and the horses graze down one side, then work their way back on the other side creating their own track.
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tangledmanes |
18. RE: paddock
Mar 13 2010, 11:46 PM EST
Welcome to the wiki, Takelababy! Sounds like you have an interesting but simple plan to make their turnout more interactive for them. Thanks for posting. Would love to see pictures and diagrams sometime, too. :-) JoAnn Do you find this valuable? |
MNdani |
19. RE: paddock
Mar 14 2010, 12:29 AM EST
Hey... haven't found this discussion before! Just wanted to tell you that I have NEVER had any long lived agression issues at my place! Usually there is only some minor "bickering" with very rare bites after the first 2-3 weeks! I have had as many as 10 horses together, mares and geldings, at one point the youngest was 1 month old and the oldest 16 or so! I always have more horse together in the summer (the neighbour brings hers over due to me having too much pasture and her not having enough). So far they were all together in the open field, which I think is the key to success! Yes, at first they come up with bite and kick marks, but after 2-3 weeks, all is well! I have had about 9 acres fenced, not devided at all, which I believe gave them pleanty of room to get out of each other's way! There were horses charging at each other, even over long distances, but due to there being plenty of space, no major injuries happened! Nobody ever got cornered. I truely believe the best thing to do is to first introduce new horses over a fence for a week or two, then throw them together on as big of an area as possible! I honestly think that the track may not be the place to get horses used to each other and if you don't own enough land (which I know not everyone does) to give them LOTS of room to avoid each other, you may be better off keeping them split up if there are some extremely aggressive ones! Last fall I split off about 2-3 acres for the front pasture with track around it and I think there still will be enough room in the back to intoduce a new horse. "Playtime" in a bigger area may truely be the key to the agression thing and at first should probably be all day with increasing ammounts of time on the track for the new horse and the herd. Anyone else had any similar experiences?
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Takelababy |
20. RE: paddock
Oct 2 2010, 7:16 PM EDT
| Post edited: Feb 19 2011, 4:18 PM EST
Something we've all lost sight of is that grazing animals move to keep from overgrazing the land. This is a built in function. Nature also provides natural rotation by providing certain forages at certain times of the year. What the horse will graze in Spring is often not touched in the Fall, unless fences restrict them. Any time we create "squeeze chutes" such as the tracks, the ground is soon torn up and can create erosion. Altho my horses can move along the top end of the paddocks this frequently travelled area produces little grass whereas where the horses spread out to graze the grasses are fine and anchor the soil. I have a separate field that the horses are allowed into for only 3 or 4 hours daily. What |I've noticed is they've created their own track. They will follow the fence line until they have completed a circuit. They will then graze in the center of the area. This had become a ritual as they've done it every day for several year.
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